[FRPythoneers] Re: VB/Python article....

Sean Reifschneider jafo at tummy.com
Tue Jun 5 14:59:49 MDT 2001

On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 08:35:39AM -0600, Clementson, Bill wrote:
>IMHO the gui-building capabilities of IDE's are a bit over-rated. Many

Yeah, I think having a stand-alone GUI builder is better than building it
into an IDE.  Usually because I find the environment provided by an IDE to
be annoying...  IDEs are great, as long as you work the way they expect you
to.  I usually find them too requiring of mousing for my tastes.  They seem
like they're mostly written by and/or for people who can't touch-type...

>companies will not allow code generated with such products to be used in
>production software as the code doesn't meet internal code standards. In
>practice, I suspect that in many corporate environments, IDE's are used

Good point.  Not only do many of the Wizards generate really crappy code,
they generate MEGABYTES of crappy code...

>simply as high-cost code editors/debuggers. IDE gui-builders are great for

And usually the editors are pretty pathetic...  If it doesn't do vi
emulation (even passable vi emulation), I won't even consider it.  I've
used vi for 15 years -- I *THINK* in vi, and I'm fast in vi.

>beginners learning gui programming (although there are good reasons to not
>use them when learning gui programming as well) and for prototyping.

It's not just useful for beginners, it's also good for those of us who
don't do a lot of GUI programming.  Especially when you're mucking around
with packing options and the like...  "What happens when I twiddle this
option?"  But, I don't think there really needs to be an editor, debugger,
and runtime environment wrapped up into the GUI builder...

>If you are interested in having a look at a Python IDE, have a look at Boa
>Constructor. It is similar to VB in it's approach to gui construction. Note

Is that looking any good these days?  I looked at it about 6 months ago and
it was pretty much unusable, but it sounded like what I wanted.  Plus, they
have a great name...

>> is in a similar boat.  A VB user should not be asking me to 
>> build an IDE.
>Unless, of course, they are throwing a lot of money at you :)

Even then -- I just don't *REALLY* understand where they're coming from.
Give me X with a butt-load of terminal windows and I'm happy as a clam.
Need an IDE under Windows?  Load up VMWare, load Linux, and run X on your
SMB shares, then periodically run your code on the Windows side...  ;-)

 "How can just a few feet of unshielded twisted pair bring SO much joy?"
                 -- Paul Orosz on DSL, paraphrasing Homer Simpson
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python

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